We are open-sourcing (AGPLv3) and going live with our mobile app beta on June 15th. This beta is locked to Android users and Plutonium iOS users. We plan a full rollout in 1 month to Google Play, Apple App Store, F-Droid, and Obtanium after we knock out a few more bugs and features.
A bit late but I didn’t see anyone else sharing this.
I am talking about XMPP being almost 3 decades old and having gained a TON of experience and clever protocol design in the process. XMPP survived multiple generations of messaging apps (ICQ, AIM, Yahoo, MSN, Skype, GTalk, …)
Don’t believe all the disinformation you read online. XMPP is a IETF standard. It is extensible, and that’s the pragmatic take: in a federated environment, you can’t impose clients and servers to run identical versions, and so the protocol is versioned and contain fallbacks for all the major features. To help implementers cut through legacy extensions, there are compatibility suites that are revisited every few years or so. You will see that, the minute Fluxer goes self-hosted and federated (if ever), this clever extensibility will be dearly missed (we saw enough of that already with Matrix).
Moreover, XMPP has multiple independent client AND servers implementations, written in distinct languages. This guarantees that no actor can single-handedly take-over the ecosystem (a big risk with Fluxer, and many alternatives), and creates a fertile ground for innovation.
If that’s so obvious, perhaps you could cite some? Did you even look into recent movim versions?
You drove the discussion towards criticisms of the protocol, which is not the same thing as how clients implement it. In other words, you can’t simply say “XMPP sucks because this unmaintained client is ugly”.
XMPP deserves some fair criticism (like anything else having reached the real world and a substantial user-base), but that’s not one. You just come across as someone who doesn’t know much about the subject.
This is not the win you think it is.
I’m not reading anything, I’ve actually used it.
I already did. Have you not used Discord? Are you just completely oblivious to the popularity the platform has achieved in 1/3 the time that XMPP has been around, and seen massive adoption? Ask yourself why that is.
Uhhhh I absolutely can when all of the clients are ugly and dated. Movim doesn’t even have a client at all, its just a PWA, which is a really poor experience.
I don’t, and I shouldn’t need to. Good software doesn’t require vast amounts of research, you just use it. I’ve used 100 different XMPP clients and softwares and they all deliver a poor experience after only a few minutes of use.
It is not the win YOU think it is. So far you haven’t been able to cite a single specific issue with the protocol or universal flaws with clients. Get to terms with it: you are spreading FUD. Or make a real, substantiated case that supports your point.
Can’t wait until you realise discord is essentially the same thing :-) . Yup, it’s a web app. Always has.
People are using WhatsApp by the billions, which is essentially a stripped-down XMPP running on an ancient fork of ejabberd (there are many other examples of widespread use of XMPP: it props up your android notifications, it runs the nintendo switch network, EA/Riot games in-app chats are clients for it, etc).
But, nobody ever said that you need to research XMPP to use it. Only to have a sensible and articulated commentary in good faith. Which once again you fail at doing.
And in not going to. They are numerous. Anyone who has used them knows.
I don’t think you know what a web app is.
Really? So I can message EA users with my MOVIM account? No? Well there’s a problem…
You can’t just label arguments you don’t like or agree with as “bad faith”. I have no motivation to hate on XMPP or promote Fluxer, other than liking one and disliking the other.
I don’t think YOU do? A web app is an app built with web technologies and running in a browser. Which is also the case of Discord desktop (an electron app, i.e. Chrome).
Again, you don’t seem to understand very much how any of this works. It’s pretty much the equivalent of saying “your devices at home are not using the tcp/ip protocol because I can’t ping your smart tv from the internet”. Actually, they do, but whoever operates the router (the XMPP server in this analogy) chose to make it this way. And yes, there is another way: for most of its history, GTalk was letting you connect to their XMPP server with the client of your choice, and talk to anyone else on the XMPP network besides accounts on @gmail.com. Federation is a built-in capability of the protocol that server admins may enable or not.
This is the extent of your argumentation:
it’s pretty clear by now that if you had any ability to comment meaningfully on this, you would have done it by now.
And importantly, my posts are a criticism of Fluxer. All I’m saying is “if you believe that you have the chops to develop a good client for a chat system, and you want it to eventually be self-hostable and federated, save yourself many years of suffering and do it on top of XMPP. Or at least if you don’t, take a good dive through it and come on the other side with a good story as to why your system is so much better. Showing mastery of the problem space will be free advertisement”.
I already have several times. I have no obligation to “substantiate” anything. If you know, you know. If you don’t, that’s fine, I’m not explaining it to you.