If I was a in charge of a business I would put a hard email filter (including externally) on corporate jargon because it is too vague and people just use it to seem smarter than they really are. The no-reply would give a lengthy explanation on why it’s bad practice.
Hmm, I wonder how often it would generate a false positive and force someone to reword something innocuous. My guess is that it would be relatively rare.
Dope. Put garbage language where it belongs.
If your stand-up is that stressful and takes less than 30 seconds to minute per speaker, you need to find a better job.
Unless thus is about stand-up comedy. In that case, you’re 100% right.
The stand-ups at my job have turned into sit downs
The whole reason you’re supposed to be standing up is to keep them short…
*more than 30 seconds to a minute?
Correct, edited my post, thanks
Lol our standup+parking lot is scheduled for an hour. Kill me.
I’ve fought this battle so many times.
My most recent battle was being told to implement Scrum and agile practices. When the subject of standup NOT being a status update came up, and I forcibly told people to keep their updates brief, it was changed to a “Sync Meeting” that lasted over an hour. Apparently, despite delivering stuff faster, being able to track velocity and ensure we’re not overextending ourselves each “sprint”, and actually knowing what we’re delivering through actionable tasks - we’re not doing agile any more…
It took me a year but I broke my team of this habit. The trick was to remind them that the parking lot shouldn’t be scheduled. The whole point is that you continue conversations organically so that it’s more like the beginning of a working session instead of the end of a meeting.
I’m happy when it just takes that amount of time, because everything else is just a waste of time…
In a standup comedy act whenever I get on my feet (optional).
Dont really have a choice in not attending that event.Most standups are bad because they’re not used as a quick collaboration tool, they’re used as a demonstration to prove you’re working, and then the least productive people talk the most because they’re the most desperate to prove they’re working.
Right along with story points.
Not meant to be a measurement of time, but of effort. But everyone ends up using them as a measure of time because that is what the MBA at the end of the tables wants.
My current company treats effort the same as time. I can appreciate that they’re at least honest about that lol
Counterpoint: If you’re working from home it might be the only people contact you get for days.
Supposedly talking to people and touching grass is healthy.
My fear of working full-remote. I mean I got enough friends, but still that’s significant less social time, when not being in something like a coworking space… Although other benefits are really tempting (like 2 to 3 times the salary)
Wait, you earn more to not commute?
I mean I can just take a job in the states, they pay quite a bit more there compared to Europe, and it can be even more targeted in the area of my interest (low-level stuff in Rust which pays even better than what I can find here)… Locally the jobs are pretty limited (at least those that interest me)… Everyone wants Java/C# or JS devs here (all languages I’ll try to avoid, and I suspect it has to do with maintaining old (tech-debt) code-bases which I try to avoid even more)… But I’m quite happy with my team currently and just have rant about JS everyday, but at least don’t have to maintain tech-debt (at least not something that I haven’t produced myself^^)… And I get great food for free… Hmm trade-offs.
Hmm, are they finally hiring internationally? Americans are historically funny about that.
I mean at least the jobs that interest me often are also (full) remote, but I’m mostly interested in start-ups, they seem to be more open with it (and the job descriptions sound more interesting). I think Covid did its job there, unlike it seems for big tech?
The purpose of stand up is to not listen to anything and say a sentence that no one listens to. It’s like a Buddhist meditation.
Yeah - it’s an art to find the perfect mix between “sounds complicated enough that they zone out”, “sounds like stuff gets done” and “not making people ask if you need help with that”.
Lemmy keeps it real.
lol I hope your standups are not actually like this! The purpose is to, as a team, plan how to achieve a goal
Err… Is your team doing planning during standup? I’ve never heard of that, from either people who are on teams that use standups, or from any of the Agile/Scrum literature that I’ve seen. In my experience, standups are typically about either a) coordinating the execution of work that has already been committed to, or b) whoops just a status meeting and everybody’s tuned out.
Ah, I see how my wording was confusing. I mean planning in the sense of “How will we complete the work that we already committed to?” and “What will we do today to achieve our Sprint goal?”
I arrived at the word planning because Scrum is sometimes described as a planning-planning-feedback-feedback cycle. You plan the Sprint, you plan daily (Daily Scrums), you get feedback on your work (Sprint Review), and you get feedback on your process (Sprint Retrospective).
I’m not actually a programmer (/engineer) I’m just a hobbyist. I work in supply chain, have worked at 4 companies in 8 years - all had stand ups, all of them are like this.
Didn’t see what community I was in when I read the post and thought there were just a lot of people here who hate stand up comedians doing crowd work
I thought it was referring to “standup meetings,” which is what we called weekly meetings with the commander in the military.
Everyone stands for the commander when he enters a room, then each person presenting needs to be standing while briefing the commander.
It’s military protocol for a high-ranking officer, although the cool officers would tell everyone to buck protocol, remain seated, and just give them the bullet points so we can get back to work.
I hate crowd work. Getting called on while on a night out is my worst nightmare
The worst thing about standups is that about once a month I catch a problem early because of what someone says. The tradeoff doesn’t feel worth it time-wise. But it keeps me from skipping them.
You could also see it as you preventing someone else from learning from their own mistakes. Maybe reframing it like that could help with skipping :)
Hm. Might not be standup that’s the problem. Might be a company culture thing. But only you know that for sure. Good luck op! Disassociation can be a life saver.
Yeah but then I’m up and sitting there like “oh shit, what the hell did I do yesterday?”
Stand ups (as originally described) shouldn’t be about what you already did, but what you are going to be working on and if there is a need to collaborate.
Most people got the concept wrong and turned them into mini status meetings.
Yepp, and no one really listens to the others, just trying to remember what you did and make sure no one dumps more work on you.
True. I’ve worked in pretty small teams with usually 2-4 devs paired, so it kind of worked out as both what we got through, what’s next priority, and how we plan to split out that day. Especially if we were light on stories.
This post is creating company culture by its promotion of ditching coworkers and seeking validation through memes. Disassociation is the problem!
Thanks
I love how bright bulbs have utterly perverted the spirit of agile development into something so horrible that people are memifying ignoring it rather than trying to fix it.
Repeat after me: If standup takes any more than a minute or two per person you’re really really doing it wrong and it isn’t standup anymore and needs to be staked, buried and the earth salted that it may never rise again.
For an act of socially immature but oh so satisfying passive aggressive resistance, leave a copy of the Agile Manifesto on your scrum master’s desk :)
(Or, if you think they’d be receptive, talk to them about moving long form reporting to any other medium so stand-up can be a simple meeting where folks give blocked/not blocked status and, where blocked, resources are directed to help.
that’s it.
Stand-ups where Mortimer from the Front End team gives a 30 minute treatise on why react is a horrible fit for your application ARE IN FACT NOT STAND-UPS.
They’re just poorly run meetings in an agile trench coat.
I like stand-up. It’s probably the only time of the day I see my coworkers. Also we don’t do status reports or anything so maybe I’m just lucky ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wake up, stand up, talk about your work vaguely enough there are no questions.
I get every week or so, but every day is just way too much. I’m a big kid, that’s what you hired me for, let me work.
Also then there are Jour Fixes and standups for the side projects you got rented out too and and and
Jour Fixe
I don’t think they use that term in English. And even more surprising, they don’t even use it in French. It’s a French loanword that somehow only exists in German.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I love these linguistic quirks.
It absolutely gets used in English speaking companies. I’ve got one in my work calendar as a reoccurring event.
Just to be sure, who created the invite? A German native speaker by chance?
The first page of results when I deliberately google in English “what is a Jour Fixe” are the following:
- Blog entry in English written by someone from a Liechtensteiner Organisation
- Blog entry in English written about the German usage of the Term
- English Wiktionary entry
- German Wikipedia article
- Blog entry in English written by someone from a German Organisation
- Translation website treating it as a German term
- Blog entry in English written by someone from Austria
- Translation website treating it as a German term
- Blog entry in German
- Blog entry in German
Some of that may be personalized to me as a Swiss user of course. But it seems a bit much to be a coincidence. Maybe it is a loan word making its way from German into English now.
I speak a little bit of German, but no, the guy who created the series is a native English speaker with Afrikaans as his second language.
I’ve lived in the US for about half a century and have never heard this.
I called in sick today so I could skip all the meetings lol
Not attempting stand-up, too
